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Thread: Curious mount behavior (fstab)

  1. #1
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    [solved] Curious mount behavior (fstab)

    Well, now I need help and hopefully somebody has a glue......
    Olegs FW 10 resp. Koppel 1.71 (which is olegs 10), Huawei E220, USB Stick 1 GB.
    My fstab:
    Code:
    #device                 Mountpoint      FStype  Options         Dump    Pass#
    /dev/discs/disc0/part1  none            swap    sw              0       0
    /dev/discs/disc0/part2  /opt            ext3    rw,noatime      1       1
    Everthing works fine, except mounting of /opt:

    Code:
    [admin@mobil root]$ mount
    /dev/root on / type squashfs (ro)
    none on /dev type devfs (rw)
    proc on /proc type proc (rw)
    ramfs on /tmp type ramfs (rw)
    usbfs on /proc/bus/usb type usbfs (rw)
    /dev/discs/disc0/part2 on /opt type ext3 (ro,noatime)
    [admin@mobil root]$
    Of course, I can remount

    Code:
    mount -o remount,rw /dev/scsi/host0/bus0/target0/lun0/part2 /opt

    but this can only be a workaround and furthermore it is ridiculous.....(shame on me)

    thx
    Last edited by newbiefan; 01-03-2009 at 10:08.
    Alle HowTo's, all howto's

    RT-N16 1.9.2.7-rtn-r3121, Samba, VSFTP, Lightthpd, PHP, Perl, MySQL, Serendipity, Aria2web, HDD 640GB
    RT-N66U, 16GB MicroSD/ 2 Partitions, 2,5" HDD 1TB, running with Merlin's FW and Entware, 16 Mbit A1,
    Netgear DGND 3700V2, QNAP TS119PII 4 TB, QNAP TS209 2 TB Raid1, Backup Synology DS107+ 1 TB, HP CP1515n

  2. #2
    btw

    can you send USSD *101# like commands with your E220 ?
    I called, emailed Huawei and still not aware if E220 firmware does USSD support for prepaid balance check .

    Darius

  3. #3
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    problem solved

    well, my stick with 1GB is worn out within 6 weeks!

    Be aware: when using a stick as swap, you have to consider that your device
    show the typical worn out within some weeks.

    BTW - it was not one of the cheapest.......a well known brand.

    Ok - I've to use my old hdd - stays alive within years!

    STICKS ARE JUST GARBAGE!
    Alle HowTo's, all howto's

    RT-N16 1.9.2.7-rtn-r3121, Samba, VSFTP, Lightthpd, PHP, Perl, MySQL, Serendipity, Aria2web, HDD 640GB
    RT-N66U, 16GB MicroSD/ 2 Partitions, 2,5" HDD 1TB, running with Merlin's FW and Entware, 16 Mbit A1,
    Netgear DGND 3700V2, QNAP TS119PII 4 TB, QNAP TS209 2 TB Raid1, Backup Synology DS107+ 1 TB, HP CP1515n

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by newbiefan View Post
    well, my stick with 1GB is worn out within 6 weeks!

    Be aware: when using a stick as swap, you have to consider that your device
    show the typical worn out within some weeks.

    BTW - it was not one of the cheapest.......a well known brand.

    Ok - I've to use my old hdd - stays alive within years!

    STICKS ARE JUST GARBAGE!
    Could you kindly email Asus Headquarters to let them issue public warning to buyers of usb-enabled routers + usb harddisk (Linux embedded devices) .

    What you call usb stick worn out within 6 weeks, is against any standards, warranty terms provided by manufacturers of usb pendrives.

    I was not aware of any such notice in Russian forum or Koppel .

    And please provide us with usb pendrive stick manufacturer's details, model, type , manufacture date and more to protect us against poor quality products.

    Darius

    Darius

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by darius View Post
    And please provide us with usb pendrive stick manufacturer's details, model, type , manufacture date and more to protect us against poor quality products.
    Some time ago, I wrote an article about wear-out of flash devices.
    It is well know, that a regular stick lasts for about => 100.000 write cycles (valid for nor flash) and up to 2.000.000 for nand flash chips.
    A big problem is the following cirumstance:
    The erase operation can only be performed on a block-wise basis; all the cells in an erase segment must be erased together.
    So if you have for instance 64KB blocks, you must write every byte again! This is not the problem, usually driver will handle this, they take care - as long as not all bytes are changed within one block, they do not write anything. Hence, you have for 64KB of bytes to write, just one erase and write cycle.
    Well, and here is the reason why a flash stick should not be used as swap:
    A swap partition can not take care about this - when flash is used, the byte(s) is/are written to the flash. And now think about the following: When you do this bytewise and you read the content after each write cycle you get an unbelieveable amount of erase/write cycles. For every single byte which you write within a block (which means you change 64.000 bytes one by one), you have not written a byte just once, you have written it 64.000 times!
    Usually, this never happens - but a swap is pretty close to this.......
    Therefore: avoid flash swaps whenever possible, maybe you are a lucky guy
    and your stick lasts for several month or a year, but a hdd lasts longer!
    And my dead stick has a kingston brand, several weeks before it was a scandisk brand, trekstor and intenso - with all of them its the same.
    As they are cheap, I use it for test reasons - and a normal wengi installation is done with my special script within 2 minutes (coffee not calculated, because I've nothing to do on the router).
    have fun......
    Alle HowTo's, all howto's

    RT-N16 1.9.2.7-rtn-r3121, Samba, VSFTP, Lightthpd, PHP, Perl, MySQL, Serendipity, Aria2web, HDD 640GB
    RT-N66U, 16GB MicroSD/ 2 Partitions, 2,5" HDD 1TB, running with Merlin's FW and Entware, 16 Mbit A1,
    Netgear DGND 3700V2, QNAP TS119PII 4 TB, QNAP TS209 2 TB Raid1, Backup Synology DS107+ 1 TB, HP CP1515n

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by newbiefan View Post
    Some time ago, I wrote an article about wear-out of flash devices.
    It is well know, that a regular stick lasts for about => 100.000 write cycles (valid for nor flash) and up to 2.000.000 for nand flash chips.
    A big problem is the following cirumstance:
    The erase operation can only be performed on a block-wise basis; all the cells in an erase segment must be erased together.
    So if you have for instance 64KB blocks, you must write every byte again! This is not the problem, usually driver will handle this, they take care - as long as not all bytes are changed within one block, they do not write anything. Hence, you have for 64KB of bytes to write, just one erase and write cycle.
    Well, and here is the reason why a flash stick should not be used as swap:
    A swap partition can not take care about this - when flash is used, the byte(s) is/are written to the flash. And now think about the following: When you do this bytewise and you read the content after each write cycle you get an unbelieveable amount of erase/write cycles. For every single byte which you write within a block (which means you change 64.000 bytes one by one), you have not written a byte just once, you have written it 64.000 times!
    Usually, this never happens - but a swap is pretty close to this.......
    Therefore: avoid flash swaps whenever possible, maybe you are a lucky guy
    and your stick lasts for several month or a year, but a hdd lasts longer!
    And my dead stick has a kingston brand, several weeks before it was a scandisk brand, trekstor and intenso - with all of them its the same.
    As they are cheap, I use it for test reasons - and a normal wengi installation is done with my special script within 2 minutes (coffee not calculated, because I've nothing to do on the router).
    have fun......
    Hi,

    called today HAMA, distributor of SanDisk products
    and your information has not been verified.
    There are no few-week flash device wear-outs claims under warranty terms.

    Personally I run a router with pendrive inserted since November 2008.

    I need more details from you.
    Have you requested your pendrive to be replaced under life-time warranty terms ?

    Darius

  7. #7
    Join Date
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    Location
    Austria
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    Quote Originally Posted by darius View Post
    Hi,

    called today HAMA, distributor of SanDisk products
    and your information has not been verified.
    There are no few-week flash device wear-outs claims under warranty terms.

    Personally I run a router with pendrive inserted since November 2008.

    I need more details from you.
    Have you requested your pendrive to be replaced under life-time warranty terms ?

    Darius
    hehe, called HAMA.....so it means the guys are liars.
    Well, all what I can tell you is: please read something, for instance wikipedia or similar. It is the truth, that sticks (any kind of flash) must erase on a block-wise basis, as result you have to write back again each byte of the block.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_memory#Limitations
    Further, I changed just one stick under warranty, because I dont keep the invoice, as this stuff costs a few bucks.
    Sorry, Darius - I'm not willing to discuss about things which are well known, it doesn't make any sense -the only point I suggest is: do a backup, I promise you need it some day.
    As sticks are cheap, it is not worth to go for a 20mile drive just to change a stick under warranty for 5 EURO. Cheaper is to throw the stick......
    And I buy them when I'm on the way - elsewhere..........
    An the last point: all tests with sticks have been done with OS windows.....thats the reason why some tests got as result several millions write cycles (as I mentioned - the driver and a smart control handle this).
    have fun
    Alle HowTo's, all howto's

    RT-N16 1.9.2.7-rtn-r3121, Samba, VSFTP, Lightthpd, PHP, Perl, MySQL, Serendipity, Aria2web, HDD 640GB
    RT-N66U, 16GB MicroSD/ 2 Partitions, 2,5" HDD 1TB, running with Merlin's FW and Entware, 16 Mbit A1,
    Netgear DGND 3700V2, QNAP TS119PII 4 TB, QNAP TS209 2 TB Raid1, Backup Synology DS107+ 1 TB, HP CP1515n

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by newbiefan View Post
    hehe, called HAMA.....so it means the guys are liars.
    Well, all what I can tell you is: please read something, for instance wikipedia or similar. It is the truth, that sticks (any kind of flash) must erase on a block-wise basis, as result you have to write back again each byte of the block.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_memory#Limitations
    Further, I changed just one stick under warranty, because I dont keep the invoice, as this stuff costs a few bucks.
    Sorry, Darius - I'm not willing to discuss about things which are well known, it doesn't make any sense -the only point I suggest is: do a backup, I promise you need it some day.
    As sticks are cheap, it is not worth to go for a 20mile drive just to change a stick under warranty for 5 EURO. Cheaper is to throw the stick......
    And I buy them when I'm on the way - elsewhere..........
    An the last point: all tests with sticks have been done with OS windows.....thats the reason why some tests got as result several millions write cycles (as I mentioned - the driver and a smart control handle this).
    have fun
    Ok.
    HAMA guys are good guys.
    One of them advised me to watch for flash memory usb sticks for professional use.
    There is a special category of flash memory products for special use (in industry, medicine , as back up for servers and the like).

    And what about Asus Eee coming with flash SSD ?
    Ok.
    Wikipedia provided us with general info.
    But I am ready to buy 20 Euro stick to replace 5 Euro one
    if that one is more reliable for Asus router over a time of 1-2 years.

    I run a small network for 10 users and must have it as reliable as possible, maintenance free.

    Any idea for usb flash memory stick reliable replacement ?
    Is SSD really much better and more expensive solution, Asus based their Eee series of models ?

    Frankly speaking 32GB HC sticks are already on a market.

    Darius

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