GUI "desktop" for wl700ge - help please!

[hal2k1]

I posted some time ago about looking in to making it easier for non-Linux and non-command-line people to use the WL700ge. I think I have here the beginnings of an approach that can work.

There have been a number of comments on this forum from time to time about GUI operation for the WL700ge advanced features. So far, using kfurge’s firmware and oleg’s optware, it has become possible to add advanced features and applications to the WL700ge, but only for applications with a console-based (text) interface. For many people, that is just too hard to operate.

I have been giving some thought to arranging for GUI control of applications running on the WL700ge. It is possible to control some specially designed applications via a web interface (so that you run a web browser on your normal PC attached to the WL700ge) but these are few and far between. I have been thinking about a GUI approach that is far more flexible than that.

The first requirement for GUI applications on a Linux system is an X server http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_Window_System . The way to get that for a headless http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headless device such as the WL700ge is to use the screen, keyboard and mouse of another PC via the Ethernet interface. In order to provide that, I would suggest tight VNC server.

http://www.tightvnc.com/intro.html

Specifically, we need the vncserver http://www.tightvnc.com/vncserver.1.html wrapper and the Xvnc http://www.tightvnc.com/Xvnc.1.html remote X-server.

These screenshots show roughly how this would work at your PC, where you run a “vncviewer” program.

http://www.tightvnc.com/screenshots.html

OK, that will provide the WL700ge with an X-server and a remote screen, keyboard and mouse (at your connected PC). That is the basics.

Next, we need (at least) a window manager, if not a full GUI desktop. Given the very limited resources of the WL700ge, I think that the only viable candidates here are blackbox http://xwinman.org/blackbox.php http://blackboxwm.sourceforge.net/ or fluxbox http://xwinman.org/fluxbox.php or alternatively, IceWM http://xwinman.org/icewm.php http://www.icewm.org/

If we choose fluxbox or blackbox, we would also need a light desktop. Perhaps Rox desktop (comes with an integrated file manager) would suit http://rox.sourceforge.net/desktop/static.html http://rox.sourceforge.net/desktop/screenshots?

Maybe OroboROX http://rox.sourceforge.net/desktop/O...ad3b20138f830b is suitable, but it seems that one is still in development.

I’d suggest that XFCE would too heavy for the WL700ge and have too many dependencies, but it too may be a solution. http://xwinman.org/xfce.php

If we need to go really small & lightweight, then this may be the go: http://ede.sourceforge.net/page/about

If we have problems with too many dependencies, then we could try this one: http://udeproject.sourceforge.net/

Taking "lightweight window manager" to the extreme, http://www.whoow.org/people/Jean-Mar...her/xd640.html

OK, assuming we have got our X-Server and desktop going, on top of that we also need a selection of X11 applications.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xterm

http://linspire.com/lindows_products...ckage_name=d4x

http://roland65.free.fr/xfe/

http://deluge-torrent.org/wiki/Screenshots

In this way, we can perhaps have a modest GUI interface (on the PC), have multiple programs running at once (on the WL700ge NAS/router), and be able disconnect our PC (by closing down the vncviewer) and leave the programs running on the WL700ge.

To make this happen, I need some real help here. I don’t have a setup where I can obtain source code and cross-compile these programs for the optware repository. If anyone is prepared to do that I would be most grateful. Alternatively, if someone could point me to a resource which explains in moderate detail how to setup a build environment for optware, and how to make packages, I would be willing to have a go at it all anyway.

[clausbruun]

Being a web developer i dont have any of the required skills, but i think this sounds like a very good idea!

[Guru]

^Agree

Kfurge is awesome with the custom firmware but I don't have a clue on how to use linux/text commands, a big help to all WL-700GE users is a custom firmware that can be upgraded like 1.0.4.6 made by asus and all the new features to show in the Web interface.
I know that won't happen and maybe it's a bit to much to ask since your not getting paid, so I'm waiting on Asus

[haraldrt]

I don't think this is a good idea! First of all using vnc is not necessary. The X-Window System is network aware and can be used over a your lan. All You need is an X-Server like cygwin for example. using this solutiuon would also take away the need for a window-manager on the wl700g. It could run on your PC. Linux or Mac OS X User have a X11 System already installed or at least on their installation medium. The trick is done by exporting your Display using
"export DISPLAY=YOURPCSIP:0.0" on the Asus and then running your app.

Leaving unneeded programs running on the router will shortly max it out. Any GUI-app will need the used framework in memory at least it requires libX11. GUI applications are larger then console apps. If you need something to ease your pain on routine task like moving files, renaming, changing permissions, or even using ftp take "mc" it is available as an ipk. For administration we should look into getting perl and webmin running.

There are a lot of programms on the linux side that run a a daemon and are controled by an external app even with gui or a web-frontend. Either can be run on your desktop.

The most complex problem is you need GUI applications developed/compiled for mipsel linux. Who is willing to do that? The toolchain only comes with libs for console apps.

E.g. I use hellanzb for getting news using the nzb-format. this nice little bastard uses an remote interface and an incoming directory. you put your .nzb files in the incoming ( on the networkshare ) and it automaticaly starts downloading. All you have to do is wait and get the comleted download from another directory on your share. Ther are also different frontends cli and web (zussaweb for example):

The most limited resource on your box is the memory. If you start swapping the already slow system will act like you pulled the handbrake. if there is any interesst in hellanzb i will put together an ipk.

I am using linux since kernel-version 0.99(apply your favorite letter here). So using the command line and shell is not a problem for me, but i want my router to function with as little manual interference as possible.

perhaps kfurge can "open" the web interface already on our router, so that we can put in our own web aplications.

You can already out in cgi-scripts, the same way you opened telnet the first time. Any cgi with the right ownership and permission can be used to start/stop things. If you use forms you can take parameters and develop your own little webservice.

If you find X11 (gnome KDE, etc) apps that run on this small box this is nice but never forget: your resources are limited ! you cannot plugin another GB of ram.

cu Harald

[hal2k1]

I don't think this is a good idea! First of all using vnc is not necessary. The X-Window System is network aware and can be used over a your lan. All You need is an X-Server like cygwin for example. using this solutiuon would also take away the need for a window-manager on the wl700g. It could run on your PC. Linux or Mac OS X User have a X11 System already installed or at least on their installation medium. The trick is done by exporting your Display using
"export DISPLAY=YOURPCSIP:0.0" on the Asus and then running your app.

I am aware of this, but it has a couple of snags.

I started here:
http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/Optware/X11
... what we need is to do "ipkg install vte xdpyinfo xauth". Of those packages, only xdpyinfo is available in the oleg optware packages.

The problems are: (1) "vte xdpyinfo xauth" probably represent just as much overhead as the balckbox window manager and Xvnc server do anyway, and (2) Where you have "The trick is done by exporting your Display using "export DISPLAY=YOURPCSIP:0.0" on the Asus and then running your app" you miss the main point ... as soon as you shutdown the PC you will kill the application running on the WL700ge. This goes against what we want to do as described here: http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/939/ and finally (3) most PCs run Windows, and Windows doesn't have an X server.

The killer point is that to use X11's netwroking directly would mean that you have to keep the PC running for as long s you wanted to run the program on the WL700ge. Using Xvnc and vncviewer avoids that, so that you can indeed "Download torrents with PC turned off" using the tightvnc/vncviewer method I describe above.

Leaving unneeded programs running on the router will shortly max it out. Any GUI-app will need the used framework in memory at least it requires libX11. GUI applications are larger then console apps.

A tiny Sharp Zaurus PDA device from 2002 could do what I suggest http://zsi2.stonekeep.com/index.php?v=d&a=21 . It shouldn't be beyond the WL700ge.

The most limited resource on your box is the memory.

...

If you find X11 (gnome KDE, etc) apps that run on this small box this is nice but never forget: your resources are limited ! you cannot plugin another GB of ram.

Some apps are written directly for X11 (such as the Xfe file manager http://roland65.free.fr/xfe/ ). They should require no overhead or additional libraries. I'd agree that Gnome & KDE apps are huge overkill, but I'm not suggesting anything nearly that heavy.

Other apps such as this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BitTornado are programmed in languages like Python, and so would presumably require pygtk and gtk libraries as dependencies.

The most complex problem is you need GUI applications developed/compiled for mipsel linux. Who is willing to do that? The toolchain only comes with libs for console apps.

It would appear that we need the following (at least):
(1) vncserver
(2) Xvnc
(3) blackbox
(4) Rox desktop (possibly, maybe not required)
(5) Either xterm or Rox terminal, possibly rxvt instead
(6) Downloader for X
(7) Xfe (maybe not required)
(8) gtk library ?
(9) things like gtk bindings for Python (pygtk)
(10) Bittornado (doesn't need to be compiled)

... other GUI apps (hopefully Python-based so they also don't need compilation).

That is what 10? or so compilations for someone that knows what they are doing.

That is a bit of an ask, I agree, but imagine the hero status and kudos they would be given!

[hal2k1]

Being a web developer i dont have any of the required skills, but i think this sounds like a very good idea!

As a web developer, your skills might instead be useful with the following tools:

http://webpy.org/

http://www.appwebserver.org/

http://pythonpaste.org/webkit/

http://genshi.edgewall.org/

http://formencode.org/

http://divmod.org/trac/ <--- most of these, heaven knows what they are for

http://www.fred.net/brv/chart/

http://pylonshq.com/

http://pylonshq.com/WebHelpers/

http://www.dabeaz.com/ply/

http://www.pythonware.com/products/pil/

http://peak.telecommunity.com/PyProtocols.html

These are all already supported by oleg's optware packages.

Then there is this snippet from kfurge's original rc.local #3

# Restart the web server
killall thttpd
thttpd -dd /shares/${pool}/${share}/htdocs -p 8081 -i /var/run/thttpd.pid

All that we really need is some dynamic web pages (stored in "htdocs") and to get rtorrent and wget applications running in the background controlled via and dynamically reporting via a web interface (so that rtorrent and/or wget do not stop downloading even if the connected browser logs off). If you have the skills to do that, then all of my suggestions above are simply not required.

[kfurge]

perhaps kfurge can "open" the web interface already on our router, so that we can put in our own web aplications.

Unfortunately most of the web functionality is built into Asus's server running on port 80. The server converts tags embedded within the html into the actual content that gets served. There's nothing much to open up since we only have a binary for the server, no source code.

I'll keep watching while you guys hash it out... ;-)

- K.C.

[clausbruun]

I would be happy to look into the possibilities of making a sort of a "offline webbased shell" base, where others might build their needed settings into.

My first task is to get TYPO3 (http://typo3.com/) running on my router tho. Why? because i think it might be fun/cool/1337 For now the MySQL server is waaaay too slow, so i havent even started the experiementing with TYPO3 yet, need to optimize that MySQL first.

[hal2k1]

As used in Damn Small Linux and Puppy Linux:

http://www.joewing.net/programs/jwm/

Only dependency is Xlib.

[wirespot]

If you do decide to go with X and a wm, according to this and this Blackbox is the most sensible choice. I'm not personally familiar with any lower-spec wm's, but you can also look at the ones created specifically for handhelds, such as Matchbox.

[Gizmo1007]

Hi Guys,

maybe I have missed something really big before I ordered my WL-700G last week, still awaiting arrival.

Assuming that you can connect to any application via Web interface from a port, can you not create a custom page etc on webserver using PHP and make the links into each GUI that way?

Example, Http://<your IP>:1234 for Itunes for example

Why would you need to create all the linux platform gui, just use the web??

Any thoughts, I think simplicity is the best and for those of us who would like to know Linux, many may not have the patients to learn and just give up.

Let me know if my idea is flawed before I go Web developing a solution which cannot work.

Giz.

[hal2k1]

Hi Guys,

maybe I have missed something really big before I ordered my WL-700G last week, still awaiting arrival.

Assuming that you can connect to any application via Web interface from a port, can you not create a custom page etc on webserver using PHP and make the links into each GUI that way?

Example, Http://<your IP>:1234 for Itunes for example

Why would you need to create all the linux platform gui, just use the web??

Any thoughts, I think simplicity is the best and for those of us who would like to know Linux, many may not have the patients to learn and just give up.

Let me know if my idea is flawed before I go Web developing a solution which cannot work.

Giz.

Look at post #6 on this thread.

If you can interface software running on the wl700ge via a web GUI, then that is by far a better solution than having a "GUI desktop" and VNC running.

So far there have been few practical suggestions as to what web interface software to run.

[Gizmo1007]

Look at post #6 on this thread.

If you can interface software running on the wl700ge via a web GUI, then that is by far a better solution than having a "GUI desktop" and VNC running.

So far there have been few practical suggestions as to what web interface software to run.

Got my white brick yesterday, tried the installed software from Asus, to say it's poor is really an understatement.

Thanks once again to kfurge for excellent work...

What I noticed is that the Asus web page is using asp pages how could this be? Anyone have any ideas, I have alot of experience programming in ASP but totally new on the Linux front.
Is it because it is hard coded as Binary? any thoughts. Let me know, if you can get access, I can help with the coding in ASP to bring up the GUi interface.

[hal2k1]

Let me know, if you can get access, I can help with the coding in ASP to bring up the GUi interface.

Anything but ASP. That is "Windows think".

The wl700ge is a Linux box, it is not a Windows server box. Think "LAMP" stack.

PHP, Python or Perl, but not ASP.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cgi_script
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PHP
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mod_python
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mod_perl

ASP is tied to Microsoft's IIS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Server_Pages

The wl700ge is not IIS.

[Gizmo1007]

Anything but ASP. That is "Windows think".

The wl700ge is a Linux box, it is not a Windows server box. Think "LAMP" stack.

PHP, Python or Perl, but not ASP.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cgi_script
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PHP
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mod_python
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mod_perl

ASP is tied to Microsoft's IIS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Server_Pages

The wl700ge is not IIS.

I know ASP is tied to microsoft's IIS I program in it, What I was talking about was the fact that when you run the Asus from the web the following page for applications comes up with the extension applications.asp

See Below, If that's not AsP then what is it?????

"http://192.168.1.1/applications.asp"