Connect 2 premiums wirelessly to join 2 networks.

[raas]

Hi,

I'm playing with this thought. I don't know if it's possible, but here it goes.

A friend of mine who also owns a premium just bought a house near mine.
Less than 250m away and 'almost' line of sight., now with the right antenna's this distance can be covered, but other forums are for that problem.

Now assuming that we can have a stable link I was thinking about the following, to connect our 2 networks together with the premiums, but I don't know which way to go. Neither of us uses the router functionality of the premium, but run it in an 'client' AP only mode. 'cause we are running seperate routers for our internet connection which leads to a switch where the clients are conneted. (all wired), the premiums are in both cases directly connected to the main router(s)

What I want to do is use each other's shares and use each other's internet connection in case of fall-back/redundancy scenario.

- at the time we both have a 192.168.1.x network, will we have to change this?
- do I have to / can I create seperate vlan's for this, just to only use the internet connection, but secure the clients in my lan from accessing from clients from my friends lan?
- What about 'stacking' the 2 internet connections? we both have 24mbit connections but from other (network)providers. (that's why the fall-back)? (this is not a must have, only nice-to-have)
- how to setup clients? is one gateway enough, or do I have to specify more gateway's (ip addressing?)
- I suppose this is kind of a bridge mode, but don't know for sure...

I've enclosed a picture of our network(s)
I hope someone can point me in the right direction.

[darius]

Hi,

you can use WDS feature enabled to build such wireless bridge.
Not supported by Olegs yet.

Darius

[wpte]

uhm... 250m do you say?
I guess that wont work with G, you probably need N for that
but even than, I don't think the routers are able to brige that distance with obstacles like houses between them even if it's almoast line of sight.
With G you might get 90m maximum, N is said to take a cover of 150m
also the wl500w sends more than twice as strong signal with N than it does with G

darius, how do you mean oleg doesnt support this?
I think it should, after all the wireless part is completely from asus.
I guess you might need to try first with WEP encryption only (if you get a connection)

[raas]

uhm... 250m do you say?
I guess that wont work with G, you probably need N for that
but even than, I don't think the routers are able to brige that distance with obstacles like houses between them even if it's almoast line of sight.
With G you might get 90m maximum, N is said to take a cover of 150m
also the wl500w sends more than twice as strong signal with N than it does with G

darius, how do you mean oleg doesnt support this?
I think it should, after all the wireless part is completely from asus.
I guess you might need to try first with WEP encryption only (if you get a connection)

wpte, like I said, I'm not going to do this with the standard antenna.
prob. a yagi or directional antenna outside the house

well, I think best is to bring his premium over and start experimenting with the bridge, before we try to cover the long distance.

But, what about security? can I create a diff. vlan on my and his network, so that only the internet connection / shares are available in my and his network.?

[poiu]

The WDS will work like a bridge no problem here.
The first and easyest way is to setup second router in the same class different IP, like first 192.168.1.1 and second (lets say yours) 192.168.1.200.
Then clients in first node will use .1 for gate and DNS, second node will use .200 for gate and DNS.
This way all will access the shares on both nodes, and in isp fail case they will use the other gate and DNS ease, only change few settings, and no other hardware involved, just what you have allready.
In the matter of isp balance (i mean use of full bandwith for both nodes by any client) is nothing to do in your case because of limited bandwith between nodes, and other issues.
In matter of security the clients must have some firewall installed locally.
But is not clear what you say, first say you need all clients access all shares, second need vlan for protecting your clients to be accessed by second node ...
Of course there are more elegant way to do the job, but this is first bullet who pass me.

LE : Ofcourse all clients will have settings done manually, no 2 DHCP servers (the routers) in same lan .

[raas]

The WDS will work like a bridge no problem here.
The first and easyest way is to setup second router in the same class different IP, like first 192.168.1.1 and second (lets say yours) 192.168.1.200.
Then clients in first node will use .1 for gate and DNS, second node will use .200 for gate and DNS.
This way all will access the shares on both nodes, and in isp fail case they will use the other gate and DNS ease, only change few settings, and no other hardware involved, just what you have allready.
In the matter of isp balance (i mean use of full bandwith for both nodes by any client) is nothing to do in your case because of limited bandwith between nodes, and other issues.
In matter of security the clients must have some firewall installed locally.
But is not clear what you say, first say you need all clients access all shares, second need vlan for protecting your clients to be accessed by second node ...
Of course there are more elegant way to do the job, but this is first bullet who pass me.

LE : Ofcourse all clients will have settings done manually, no 2 DHCP servers (the routers) in same lan .

Hi poiu,

Thanks for your comments.
I needed to clarify this, by accessible shares from both sides I meant the shares on the asus, not shares on the pc's. my pc's may access my other pc's shares, the share on my asus and the share on my friends asus. no shares on pc's on my friends network. My friends pc's may access shares on his other pc's, the shares on his asus and my asus, but not shares on my pc's. this is what I meant. sorry for not fully explaining this.

no prob. in doing al the settings manually on both networks, no dhcp is running.

Thanks all for the insight, I'll bring his asus over and start experimenting,
More tips and tricks are always welcome.

[darius]

[QUOTE=poiu;109891]The WDS will work like a bridge no problem here.
.....


Hi,

could you tell me more how WDS does really work in star configuration
multi-path bridging and more ?
Can I stack wifi bridges ?
What configurations are served ?
Got a lot of info from the net, unfortunately nothing specific to WDS protocol
in details like WDS HOWITWORKS and how to configure many WDS bridges into one net and nothing about handover access in mobile WDS.

Please tell me more and refer to nice places.
By a chance I got the idea WDS is supported by Olegs.
No manual how to configure to build WDS based network.

Darius

[poiu]

Sorry, i was not clear.
WDS is a bridge, so will work like one ^^, but implementation differ from one manufacturer to another, because of that is best to use same equipment on this links.
The WDS protocol is build to bridge two or more wireless points transparently, L2 , so the macs of clients will be forwarded and accesibile on all points of the WDS bridge.
The protocol will work is link to link mode or star mode, but the number of nodes is limited by troughput generally below 7.
Real number of nodes depend on the quality of hardware and firmware, but is a "cheap" protocol, not used in hi troughput/up time networks, is builded for small networks small appliance.
The enterprise wifi bridges usually uses proprietary protocol, or mesh protocol.
WDS can support encryption, both WEP or AES, in cases when encryption is not available is the firmware/hardware fault not protocol.
For advanced wifi links i kindly advice to use a enterprise AP, like AP4000 from PROXIM, wich i use back in time to build such links, beautifully build machines both in hardware and firmware, who will pass/build vlans, know all encryptions, know all modes of work, mesh/wds/clients, in same time, in both 2,4/5 Ghz, and many more advanced architectures help like filtering ip/mac/protocol/ports/bandwith in all directions client/node based settings, multiple SSID-s wich one with his settings.
In matter of wds multilink (star or combined) capabilities of our 500gp, i dont use it so will be to discover, but in good signal case must work, being limited by bandwith and hardware/firmware stability.
Building such link is ease, need only same channel on both units (by hand, not let auto) and offcourse mac of coresponded unit and wireless mode (b or g) in both units.
In security matter an exposed WDS link, and not encrypted, is like your switch is on street with a free port to be used .. a mtm atack will ease sniff all your trafic.
Another thing, the B protocol is way high resistance on weather and reflections generally "outside" but with low bandwith, and g have higher bandwith but not builded for outside appliances, very unstable and sensible, will be your test to say if g survive in your case (the A protocol -5Ghz- is best for home links, fast and reliable).
Considering throghput of usb hdd on 500gp, in B link case the WDS link will be bottleneck, in G case the hdd-s..
First test on long link must be in b mode, to archieve the best signal and bandwith (wich is not the same thing), then switch to g and test if the link is stable under load.
You can set another ip class on WDS heads (500gp-s) like 10.0.0.x, set first lan gate (first router) to 192.168.1.1 and his clients to use this class, and second router 192.168.0.1 (his clients will use this class), both lans subnet 255.255.255.0, add second ip on all clients 10.0.0.x+1,+2.., in order to keep clients private and all can use shares on both 500gp-s.
But is security bad advice, because a average "hacker" will access second network ease ...
Sorry for the long post, usually i am bad on explaining things .

[darius]

Hi,

could you provide me with some details of WDS protocol ?
I would like to implement such protocol on my own as shell script running.
So how to emulate WDS protocol on a number of inter-connected routers ?
What is a chance to emulate mesh network/protocol with WDS protocol
and how to emulate mesh protocol with shell scripts running on routers ?

Darius

[poiu]

*Darius,
When you say "handover access in mobile WDS" you think like something close to mobile tel topology ?
The protocol will determine the best signal and short path, and pass connection to best cell ?
That is mesh network topology not WDS.
As far i know the mesh protocol was licensed even in enterprise hardware who support it, must pay for every active node, but recently the AP4000 from Proxim benefit for free mesh protocol, they push WDS away clearly in benefit of mesh links, maybe out there is another good and ceaper product to do this job.
Sorry to mention PROXIM so much but i work alot with their hardware.
The links low lvl specifications of WDS protocol i dont have close, sorry about this.
I dont know if WDS or mesh low lvl specifications is free to find...

[raas]

poiu,


thanks for the information, it's clear to me,
I will go and experiment with the alternate ip configuration (and belonging dns and gateway settings),

It's in no hurry, cause he will not be living in his house for the next 2 months, so I'll take his asus home and start experimenting.

Thanks for the information,
I will get back if I have concrete questions about settings etc.

[darius]

*Darius,
When you say "handover access in mobile WDS" you think like something close to mobile tel topology ?
The protocol will determine the best signal and short path, and pass connection to best cell ?
That is mesh network topology not WDS.
As far i know the mesh protocol was licensed even in enterprise hardware who support it, must pay for every active node, but recently the AP4000 from Proxim benefit for free mesh protocol, they push WDS away clearly in benefit of mesh links, maybe out there is another good and ceaper product to do this job.
Sorry to mention PROXIM so much but i work alot with their hardware.
The links low lvl specifications of WDS protocol i dont have close, sorry about this.
I dont know if WDS or mesh low lvl specifications is free to find...

Thanks.
Proxim is ok at $500
WL-500gP at $100
so for private use it makes a difference (to buy and test 3 or more routers).

you said:
"I dont know if WDS or mesh low lvl specifications is free to find..."

WDS is not supported in WL-500gP by Asus but by Olegs, so Oleg knows the protocol
Contacted Oleg, no response ;(

Frankly speaking I am not interested in WDS or mesh low lvl specs.
Just need to learn how it works - flow chart or the like
to try to write shell script on my own to emulate WDS or mesh.
The idea is not new, so protocols should be open and available.

Handover or roaming is not hard to imagine or to implement to.
Thanks.

Darius

[poiu]

I think is not this way "WDS is not supported in WL-500gP by Asus but by Olegs, so Oleg knows the protocol".
Protocol is known by driver, wich is installed by Oleg and some usefull scripts too to make life ease to us setting all things with ease and respect for his work ^^..